Sunday, January 30, 2005

Intelligent life at the DU?

Over at the DU ShinerTX who views the terrorists as freedom fighters says:

We have to stand up for what's right, regardless of what other people think, and regardless of the cost. Compromise is what has led us to this point with the Chimp in control. We can't back down. The more we back down--and the more we applaud at all what they do there--the more they will take from us.
Spoken like a true vanguard of the people.

To which redikop3 replies:
You're oh so brave. Regardless of the cost? What cost? What the hell do you risk challenging the government of the US? You want to see courageous people turn on your TV and look at Iraqi women carrying their babies to the polls. You'll belittle it because you're a buffoon, but they're the ones defending what's right while you brag about your courage for posting on a website hardly anyone cares about.
ctaylor gets it as well. The demise of the Democrats as a real party with a warning to real Republicans as well.
If you want to cheer on a bunch zealots who stone gays and beat women or power-mad fascists, then go over to Pat Robertson's or the neo-Nazi's website. It's that kind of anti-democratic Democratic thinking that is turning the DNC into the minority party everywhere.

If what happened today in Iraq is screwing up the world, then we've got to figure out how to screw it up faster. Maybe if we could screw up mainland "company town" China their workers could have real unions and be able to bargin for better conditions. Let's screw up Iran next. After their wars women are enough of a majority there they might could elect some feminists.

Why does Bush say he wants to spread freedom around the world? If that's what American's want to here, then let's get out in front of it and complain from the cutting edge that the conservatives are too slow. Tell people that if they want to make sure its done right then who better than the party of Jefferson and Wilson and Roosevelt.

This short-sighted "the enemy of my political oponent is my friend" obsession is not only going to alienate voters, it's going to destroy an otherwise great opportunity to spread democracy around the world.

It's not enough to say that Bush's inaugural speech sounded pretty but he doesn't mean it, you have to follow it up by saying "BUT WE DO, we have a track record of 2 centuries of success, and if you give us a chance we'll show you again." How many people are going to be inspired by following it up with "and we'll protect your Social Security better?" Deep down people need to be a part of something greater than themselves. Maybe "fighting to blow up hopeful voters" seems great to a few people, but "fighting to make sure the bravery of hopeful voters is not wasted or betrayed" sounds better to me. I'll bet it sounds better to a lot of swing voters too.

As far as people "betraying their country" by wanting to vote... How the (&@(#& is that kind of nationalist thinking progressive?
There is a future for this guy in a real political party. Which unfortunately the Democrats have ceased to be.


You have to be fast over at the DU. Voices of dissent are quickly silenced. redikop3's post has already (21:09z) been removed. Took 'em less than 40 minutes. Down the old memory hole. Fortunately I have the main point recorded here.

Do they really think Stalinism has a future in America?


Welcome Instapundit readers.


Traf's Piece said...

Great post. Let these people weep alongside Saddam, Zarqwai, Bin Laden and the devil. I'm going to celebrate along with the saints.

D. B. Light said...

Nice post,

The Democratic Party is making a grave mistake in trying to undercut or demean the war effort. If "progressives" are true to their principles they will applaud what is taking place in Iraq and see this process through to completion.

Michael Hawn said...

ctylor has a good point. I like having two parties fighting for America. when one party falls on its face and starts fighting against America they will lose.
Lets screw up the world faster

Oscar in Kansas said...

Of course they took down the post defending the freedom to vote, even though it didn't violate any of their posting 'rules.' They can't allow such articulate dissent to be read.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's the anti-Democratic Underground. They think they are 'Progressives' but a more accurate term is Regressive.

DU is the best site to watch the once-great Democratic party devolve into a reactionary force. Scholars will study it in years to come. Sad.

The Reivers said...

Twenty years from now --say 2025-- I'll bet that not a single Retro-Dem disparaging today's Iraqi epiphany will dare to admit doing any such thing. There will be denials; nuanced re-interpretations; ad hominem slurs against those bringing up the matter; finally silence, as the last clueless Boomer goes down flailing before the Giant Spiders of Truth.

Poor George Bush! How's he ever goin' to top this one? In the face of amazingly vituperative, concerted opposition, he's stuck to his guns and realized a truly historic feat. I know this sounds chauvinistic, but perhaps like Denmark, the New Iraq could proclaim July 4th a holiday, not in celebration of America with all its faults, but because that first Independence Day changed everything, not only in the New World but the Old.

Peter Sean said...

For whatever it's worth, I think that the "joatsimeon" posting on that thread is S.M.Stirling who is a well-known alternative history science fiction writer - who tends to give his stories a fairly hard military edge. He's the guy who wrote the Draka novels, if you know the reference. His posts help to elevate the usually low level of intelligence over at DU, such as when he points out, accurately, that Iraq was a Soviet client which "is where they got all the T-72s."

Nice to see that not everyone at DU is a complete nimrod.

Joe said...

I'm a hardcore Democrat, and if people like ShinerTX ever represent anything but the lunatic fringe of the left, I'd leave the party in a heartbeat.

As the poster a few above me said, "Two parties fighting *for* America". I'm a Democrat because I love America, not because of some 'we are the world' bullshit about how we occupy no special moral ground in the world (because we do).

I opposed the war in Iraq, not because I was against the principle (starting a democracy in the Middle East was a Good Thing) but because of the giant potential for things to go terribly wrong, such as a fundamentalist revolution in Pakistan overthrowing the government and giving the Islamofacists their first unfettered access to nuclear weapons. We've been pretty lucky in Iraq, and most of the bad things that were possible simply haven't happened.

But the Democratic party needs to seriously establish the idea that "Now that we're in, we own it, and we need to do everything in our power to make Democracy succeed."

DU doesn't represent the future of the Democratic party - they represent a fringe which we will hopefully marginalize and force out of our ranks. The New Republic represents the future. represents the future. Simon Rosenberg, a great candidate for DNC chair, represents the future.

I can't be a Republican anytime soon - As much as I might have a few neoconservative leanings, the way the machinery of the Republican party operates just makes my blood curl sometimes. But if you guys make Rudy, McCain, and Arnold the new face of the party, force out the "Our-Country-is-a-Christian-Nation-and-the-Gays-are-Sinful" types into eternal third party status", and the Democrats continue on the path they're on -- you'll win over me, and a lot of other sane center-left voters out there.

Anonymous said...

Gotta say, though, that any Democrat who wants to brag about his party's "two centuries" of success, has got either a really short memory, or a really nasty notion of what qualifies as "success".

DaveG said...

Ok, I went to take a look at the new Democratic party at

The Bush administration, dating back to its negligent preparations for winning the war and the peace, has done little to make this day the triumph of democracy it has so often predicted.

Sounds like the same old, same old to me.

BigDirigible said...

"ctaylor," the putatuve "voice of reason" or something like it, is lost in the woods as well. "Party of Jefferson and Wilson and Roosevelt" my foot. The ex-party of those luminaries, more accurately. They've been handily outclassed by the ex-party of Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt.

For decades I never voted for anything but a Democrat for any office whatever. That ended during the party's disgraceful antics during the embarrassment of the Clinton years. The customers you lose are very hard to lure back. I prefer a two-party system to a one-party system, but the Democrats aren't a party, they're a corpse, and not a pretty one. Ted Kennedy is the past, Nancy Pelosi and Barbara Boxer are the future. That's not a future at all. The party isn't just a corpse, it's a corpse with a stake through its heart. Phooey.

PS - Ahhh, for someone above - A "nimrod" is a hunter. People think it's a synonym for "moron" because Bugs Bunny sometimes applied it to Elmer Fudd, who was, of course, a hunter as well as an ultramaroon.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, Joe, to outsiders (i.e. those who are not geeked out by insider politics -- although I'm certainly one) it sure looks like the DU loons are waaaaaay more than a fringe of the party. It's hard to show much of anything there that hasn't been recently said (although perhaps in softer words) by Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Kerry, or Kennedy. Non-hardcore citizens have little reason not to believe that DU DKos Michael Moore et al are not the center of the Democratic party rather than a fringe. Until some notable Democrat (Anybody? Anybody? . . . Hilary?) has the guts to have a Sister Souljah moment on their crazy asses, the average public will think they are the major part of the Democrats.


Robert Lindsay said...

Thomas the Wraith and BigDirigible, please stroll your emaciated and bloated bodies away from our party, and do not ever come back. You are not wanted in the Dem Party, so get out and stay out, please. :) This whole post and the commenting following is all just more nonsense, crap, lies and bullshit. I am a Leftist, as such I am the extreme Left of the Dem Party (since I voted Dem last time).

The people I associate with vote Democrat and are liberals to leftists. Not one of them has anything good to say about the Iraqi resistance, not one, especially in its latest incarnation. I have not yet met one liberal American human being who has anything good to say about the Islamofascists in Iraq, or anywhere else.

Simply, most liberals and leftists in the US absolutely cannot stand these people. You hop on over to DU and see one person ranting away. I actually associate with these ppl for decades, and you do not! You meet them for 10 minutes on the web and you knew them your whole life.

JZ thinks your average liberal Democrat supports Islamofascism - JZ knows nothing. DBLight growls that the Dems "are making a grave mistake undermining the war effort"? Oh really DB? Now that a majority of Americans think the war was a bad idea, a majority think Bush is f_g it up bad, and a majority think the whole thing is a massive clusterf-k?

Robert Lindsay said...

So, the Dems are making a fatal effort by not sucking up to DB's position, which is held by about 40% of the electorate. It is to laugh! Michael, the Marine, wants to "screw the world up faster". Sir, put on your uniform and head on out there, to screw up the world for democracy, it's your calling.

And he thinks the Dems are "failing because they hate America" even though Kerry won the election, 51%-48%! How can we be failing when we won, Michael? Oh, and Michael, strap on that weapon, big guy, and head on to Syria or Iran or wherever. In either case, I will be rooting for Syria, Iran, North Korea, Cuba, Venezueala, Burma, Zimbabwe, Belarus, against the US military. :(

The Wraith thinks the Dem Party is actually a "regressive, reactionary party". It is to laugh! If it really was, the Wraith, a conservative, would love to vote for them LOL! Since you are a regressive and reactionary voter yourself, why complain, Mr. "I voted on the I Hate Fags Amendment" single issue guy?

The Reivers can see into the future. He cheers on the BS election that was shoved at gunpoint down G Bush's throat by Sistanti and the guns of the Iraqi people, and plants the medal on Bush Wimp Bush's chest for caving in to the mullahs and the bullet! It is to laugh. Then he opines that the Iraqis will make 4th of July a holiday on the same day as the US because they love the US too much!

Robert Lindsay said...

LOL Reivers! Do you actually know any Arabs, or Muslims, or Iraqis, Reivers? You are out of touch with reality. Peter Sean makes a lame post about how ppl at the DU are "stupid". And they are not. SIR. Joe (rightwing "Democrat") says, "We've been pretty lucky in Iraq, and most of the bad things that were possible simply haven't happened"!

Dood! Cough! I am LMFAO! Um, exactly how much f-g worse can it get, man? He also thinks, now that we are in, we have to win. Uh-huh. And do polls support that position or reject it, Joe? (They reject it). Joe "hardcore Democrat" talks about how a bunch Republican in all but name only so-called-Democrat scum traitor creeps represent "the future of the party".

Why, Joe? Because they act 90% like Republicans?! Oh and you can take your Rudy, McCain and Awnuld and walk a long ways away from me, pal. Or grab them by the arm and stroll over the Repug Party, which is where you belong.

Anonymous said...

Hilarious! :-D

Anonymous said...

That has to be a character account. Doesn't it?

Morgan Painter said...

Robert Lindsay wrote:

"In either case, I will be rooting for Syria, Iran, North Korea, Cuba, Venezueala, Burma, Zimbabwe, Belarus, against the US military."

As a patriotic American I respect your right to your opinion.

I hereby exercise the right to express my opinion.

I write:

Why don't you move your sorry ass to one of those countries and see how long your empty head stays on your shoulders.

You are a disgrace to the cause of freedom.

You piss on all the men and women who have struggled against oppressive forces that deny humans their basic dignity.

You are able to speak those words because better people than you have died to give you that right.

You are a disgustingly stupid piece of rancid ape shit. I hope you develope a crippling disease of the hands so you can no longer type such insulting, calloused remarks.

I hope your voicebox rots in your throat so you cannot speak such words.

I hope you fall and hit your head on the sidewalk, maybe it will knock some sense into you.

Most of all I hope you realize how wrong you are to support tyrants and dictators and repent so none of the above hexes will happen to you.

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